{"id":9769,"date":"2024-10-18T13:09:37","date_gmt":"2024-10-18T20:09:37","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/dornsife.usc.edu\/cagr\/?p=9769"},"modified":"2024-11-04T09:22:06","modified_gmt":"2024-11-04T17:22:06","slug":"the-uncomfortability-of-testimonies-sarah-ernst","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/dornsife.usc.edu\/cagr\/2024\/10\/18\/the-uncomfortability-of-testimonies-sarah-ernst\/","title":{"rendered":"The (Un)comfortability of Testimonies – Sarah Ernst"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\n \n \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n
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 <\/p>\n

The (Un)comfortability of Testimonies – Sarah Ernst<\/strong><\/h2>\n

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\"Sarah<\/a><\/p>\n

In this blog, 2024 Lev Student Research Fellow Sarah Ernst reflects on uncomfortable encounters with testimony.<\/em><\/p>\n

\u201cDo you want me to completely \u2013 or maybe not on tape \u2013 completely politically incorrect? Then I will, I will explain it to you.\u201d<\/em> \u2013 Marianne Z. Interview Code 52267. Tape 2, 1:09:53<\/p>\n

Having just completed my third year of graduate studies on the Holocaust, I had (perhaps wrongly) assumed that I knew all the emotions that could come my way whilst watching testimonies housed in the USC Shoah Foundation Visual History Archive as the Beth and Arthur Lev Student Fellow. There are the commonplace \u201cbig emotions,\u201d the sadness, anger, and hope that can emerge while hearing stories of loss, violence, and survival. And, as someone who studies queer histories of the Holocaust, I find myself often growing numb to the commonplace discussions of sexual violence in the camps or homophobia towards other prisoners.<\/p>\n

And yet, this testimony from Marianne threw me. For one thing, right before this moment, she breaks the \u201cfourth wall,\u201d so to speak: this is done by remarking that the interviewer \u201cmust be very liberal, because you are frowning.\u201d It\u2019s an odd comment, one that forces the listener to remember the context of the testimony and the fact that there are people behind the camera. Marianne not only points out in this moment that faces cannot lie \u2013 even if interviewers are cautioned by certain guidelines on what to say \u2013 but, in her question of being \u201cpolitically correct,\u201d it hammers home the presumed structure of the testimony. It is one where \u2013 for many years \u2013 the focus seemed to be a larger story of survival that could perhaps be condensed for lay audiences to an \u201cus vs. them,\u201d all of which ended with hope and promises of \u201cnever again.\u201d Marianne\u2019s own testimony does not fit into this. In her conversation on abortion and homosexuality that follows this admittance, she goes on to talk about how, even though she had no problem working with a lesbian physician, she was disappointed that it was no longer legal in California for physicians to help queer people \u201cquit\u201d (i.e. conversion therapy).<\/p>\n

When I finished this segment, I needed a moment to think about what was said by Marianne. Here was someone who I did not know, a survivor who produced a testimony that immediately made me feel uncomfortable. It was the ways in which Marianne matter-of-factly posited her beliefs that \u201c99% of [queer people] are very unhappy,\u201d or that abortion should not be allowed. It was also her discussion \u2013 as someone who converted to Christianity \u2013 that the Christians in the United States would soon be attacked by the country like the European Jews in the Holocaust. It just felt\u2026off. I scrambled in my mind to recall the last time I had such a knee-jerk reaction to a testimony. Even after a month of residency, I could only think of one other: Eva H.<\/p>\n

Eva was a Jewish nurse who had knowledge of the deportations in Hamburg during the Holocaust. At one point, before a deportation of Jewish persons, Eva recalled how she was asked to help bring a disabled Jewish child to the nearby psychiatric hospital. What follows in her recount is the steps she took \u2013 including negotiating with the Gestapos to take a taxi \u2013 to ensure this (in her words) \u201ccompletely idiotical child\u201d was not sent on the transport. When asked by the interviewer what happened to the child, Eva remarked that he was killed, seeming to justify it by noting that the Nazis \u201ckilled even people who were not that<\/em> bad\u201d (emphasis my own).<\/p>\n

\u201cPeople who were not that<\/em> bad\u201d\u2026that<\/em> bad. This was the moment \u2013 like Marianne\u2019s discussion of the 99% unhappy \u2013 that threw me. In this moment, Eva differs from Marianne: it is not just a discussion of beliefs, but direct acts taken by her. It then because my duty \u2013 as the listener \u2013 to digest the fact that what I was listening to could be read as complacency in the \u201ceuthanasia\u201d campaign under the Nazis. Despite the academic part of my brain wanting to place this one act in the context of the larger deportations and circumstances of wartime Hamburg. I wondered how I could deal with this testimony when I immediately disliked Eva?<\/p>\n

Why, then, is this blog post about Marianne and Eva at all if they made me feel so uncomfortable? To that, I say it is precisely because of those feelings that I need to talk about them. These women \u2013 who for different reasons do not align nicely with the perceptions of what a testimony should include \u2013 nevertheless offer (perhaps) a more accurate narrative. They are not afraid to willingly place their messiness and ambivalences on tape, forever to be available to researchers in the distance future. I find that the knee-jerk reactions remind me much more than the \u201cbig emotions\u201d that survivors are, above all, humans<\/em>: people with different beliefs and attitudes to certain topics that might not align with perceptions of what one should expect when listening to the video testimonies. These are people who \u2013 for their own reasons and views and circumstances \u2013 react and act in different ways, all of which deserve<\/em> to be part of what is remembered.<\/p>\n

So, with a deep breath and a reflection, I continue to embrace the (un)comfortability of the messiness. The beauty of my work this summer is that I learned to accept the (un)comfortability and embrace a new way of engagement with the video testimonies. Because, if we take away the human<\/em> from the narrative, are we truly grappling with this history?<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Image Caption: Marianne Z. during her interview, San Francisco, CA.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<\/div>\n\n\n <\/div><\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"author":140,"featured_media":9771,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[16],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-9769","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-blog"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\nThe (Un)comfortability of Testimonies - Sarah Ernst<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Brazil has had a complicated political past. When you learn about the crimes of the military dictatorship (1964-1986), it\u2019s striking how recently it ended. In my case, five years before I was born. 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